DISPATCHES FROM
AMERICA Cindy, Katrina and Bush's
Monica Interview with Cindy Sheehan,
conducted by Tom Engelhardt
My brief
immersion in the almost unimaginable life of Cindy
Sheehan begins on the Friday before the massive
antiwar march past the White House. I take a cab
to an address somewhere at the edge of Washington
DC - a city I don't know well - where I'm to have
a quiet hour with her.
Finding
myself on a porch filled with peace signs and
vases of roses (assumedly sent for Sheehan), I ring the doorbell, only
to be greeted by two barking dogs but
no human beings. Checking my cell phone, I discover
a message from someone helping Sheehan
out.
Good Morning America has just called; plans
have changed. Can I make it to Constitution and
15th by five?
I rush to the nearest major
street and, from a bus stop, fruitlessly attempt
to hail a cab. The only empty one passes me by and
a young black man next to me offers an apologetic
commentary: "I hate to say this, but they probably
think you're hailing it for me and they don't want to pick me up." On his
recommendation, I board a bus, leaping off (twenty
blocks of crawl later) at the sight of a hotel
with a cab stand.
A few minutes before
five, I'm finally standing under the Washington
monument, beneath a cloud-dotted sky, in front of
"Camp Casey", a white tent with a blazing red
"Bring them home tour" banner. Behind the tent is
a display of banged-up, empty soldiers' boots; and
then, stretching almost as far as the eye can see
or the heart can feel, a lawn of small white
crosses, nearly 2,000 of them, some with tiny
American flags planted in the nearby ground.
In front of the serried ranks of crosses
is a battered-looking metal map of the United
States rising off a rusty base. Cut out of it are
the letters, "America in Iraq, killed ........
wounded ........" (It's wrenching to note that, on
this strange sculpture with eternal letters of
air, only the figures of 1,910 dead and 14,700
wounded seem ephemeral, written as they are in
white chalk over a smeared chalk background,
evidence of numerous erasures.)
This is,
at the moment, Ground Zero for the singular
movement of Cindy Sheehan, mother of Casey, who
was killed in Sadr City, Baghdad on April 4, 2004,
only a few days after arriving in Iraq. Her
movement began in the shadows and on the Internet,
but burst out of a roadside ditch in Crawford,
Texas, and, right now, actually seems capable of
changing the political map of America.
When I arrive, Sheehan is a distant
figure, walking with a crew from Good Morning
America amid the white crosses. I'm told by
Jodie, a stalwart of Code Pink, the women's
antiwar group, in a flamboyant pink-feathered hat,
just to hang in there along with Joan Baez,
assorted parents of soldiers, vets, admirers,
tourists, press people, and who knows who else.
As Sheehan approaches, she's mobbed. She
hugs some of her greeters, poses for photos with
others, listens briefly while people tell her they
came all the way from California or Colorado just
to see her, and accepts the literal T-shirt off
the back of a man, possibly a vet, with a bandana
around his forehead, who wants to give her "the
shirt off my back".
She is brief and
utterly patient. She offers a word to everyone and
anyone. At one point, a man shoves a camera in my
hand so that he and his family can have proof of
this moment - as if Cindy Sheehan were already
some kind of national monument, which in a way she
is.
But, of course, she's also one human
being, even if she's on what the psychiatrist
Robert Jay Lifton would call a "survivor mission"
for her son. Exhaustion visibly inhabits her face.
(Later, she'll say to me, "Most people, if they
came with me for a day, would be in a coma by
11am.")
She wears a tie-dyed, purple
T-shirt with "Veterans for Peace" on the front and
"waging peace" on the back. Her size surprises me.
She's imposing, far taller than I expected, taller
certainly than my modest five foot, six inches.
Perhaps I'm startled only because I'd filed her
away - despite every strong commentary I'd read by
her –as a grieving mother and so, somehow, a
diminished creature.
And then, suddenly, a
few minutes after five, Jodie is hustling me into
the back seat of a car with Cindy Sheehan beside
me, and Joan Baez beside her. Cindy's sister Dede,
who wears an "Anything war can do, peace can do
better" T-shirt and says to me later, "I'm the
behind-the-scenes one, I'm the quiet one," climbs
into the front seat. As soon as the car leaves the
curb, Cindy turns to me: "We better get started."
"Now?" I ask, flustered at the thought of
interviewing her under such chaotic conditions.
She offers a tired nod - I'm surely the 900th
person of this day - and says, "It's the only way
it'll happen." And so, with my notebook (tiny
printed questions scattered across several pages)
on my knees, clutching my two cheap tape recorders
for dear life and shoving them towards her, we
begin:
TomDispatch: You've
said that the failed bookends of George Bush's
presidency are Iraq and Katrina. And here we are
with parts of New Orleans flooded again. Where
exactly do you see us today?
Cindy
Sheehan: Well, the invasion of Iraq was a
serious mistake, and the invasion and occupation
have been seriously mismanaged. The troops don't
have what they need. The money's being dropped
into the pockets of war profiteers and not getting
to our soldiers. It's a political war. Not only
should we not be there, it's making our country
very vulnerable. It's creating enemies for our
children's children. Killing innocent Arabic
Muslims, who had no animosity towards the United
States and meant us no harm, is only creating more
problems for us.
Katrina was a natural
disaster that nobody could help, but the man-made
disaster afterwards was just horrible. I mean,
number one, all our resources are in Iraq. Number
two, what little resources we did have were
deployed far too late. George Bush was golfing and
eating birthday cake with [Senator] John McCain
while people were hanging off their houses praying
to be rescued. He's so disconnected from this
country - and from reality. I heard a line
yesterday that I thought was perfect. This man
said he thinks Katrina will be Bush's Monica
[Lewinsky] . Only worse.
TD:
It seems logical that the families of dead
soldiers should lead an antiwar movement, but
historically it's almost unique. I wondered if you
had given some thought to why it happened here and
now.
CS: That's like people
asking me, "Why didn't anybody ever think of going
to George Bush's ranch to protest anything?"
TD: I was going to ask you
that too ...
CS: [Laughs.] I
don't know. I just thought of it and went down to
do it. It was so serendipitous. I was supposed to
go to England for a week in August to do Downing
Street [Memo] events with [Congressman] John
Conyers. That got cancelled. I was supposed to go
to Arkansas for a four-day convention. That got
cancelled. So I had my whole month free. I was
going to be in Dallas for the Veteran's for Peace
convention. The last straw was on Wednesday,
August 3 - the 14 Marines who were killed and
George Bush saying that all of our soldiers had
died for a noble cause and we had to honor the
sacrifices of the fallen by continuing the
mission. I had just had it. That was enough and I
had this idea to go to Crawford.
The first
day we were there - this is how unplanned it was -
we were sitting in lawn chairs, about six of us,
underneath the stars with one flashlight between
us, and we were going to the bathroom in a
ten-gallon bucket.
DeDe:
Five-gallon ...
CS:
A five-gallon bucket, sorry. So that's how well
planned this action was. We just planned it as we
were going along and, for something so
spontaneous, it turned out to be incredibly
powerful and successful. It's hard for some people
to believe how spontaneous it was.
TD: You've written that
George Bush refusing to meet with you was the
spark that lit the prairie fire - and that his not
doing so reflected his cowardice. You also said
that if he had met you that fatal ... fateful day
...
Joan Baez: Fatal day ...
TD: Fatal - it was fatal for
him - things might have turned out quite
differently.
CS: If he had
met with me, I know he would have lied to me. I
would have called him on his lies and it wouldn't
have been a good meeting, but I would have left
Crawford. I would have written about it, probably
done a few interviews, but it wouldn't have
sparked this exciting, organic, huge peace
movement. So he really did the peace movement a
favor by not meeting with me.
TD:
I thought his fatal blunder was to send
out [National Security Advisor Stephen] Hadley and
[Deputy White House Chief of Staff Joe] Hagin as
if you were the prime minister of Poland. [She
laughs.] And it suddenly made you in terms of the
media ...
CS: ... credible.
TD: So what did Hadley and
Hagin say to you?
CS: They
said, "What do you want to tell the president?" I
said, "I want to ask the president, what is the
noble cause my son died for?" And they kept
telling me: Keep America safe from terrorism for
freedom and democracy. Blah-blah-blah ... all the
excuses I wasn't going to take, except from the
president. Then we talked about weapons of mass
destruction and the lack thereof, about how they
had really believed it. I was: Well, really, Mr
Stephen (yellowcake uranium) Hadley ... I finally
said, "This is a waste of time. I might be a
grieving mother, but I'm not stupid. I'm very well
informed and I want to meet with the president."
And so they said, "Okay, we'll pass on your
concerns to the president."
They said at
one point, "We didn't come out here thinking we'd
change your mind on policy." And I said, "Yes you
did." They thought they were going to intimidate
me, that they were going to impress me with the
high level of administration official they had
sent out, and after they explained everything to
me, I was going to go [her voice becomes liltingly
mocking], "Ohhhh, I really never saw it that way.
Okay, let's go guys." You know, that's exactly
what they thought they were going to do to me. And
I believe it was a move that did backfire because,
as you said, it gave me credibility and then, all
of a sudden, the White House press corps thought
this might be a story worth covering.
TD: What was that like? I
had been reading your stuff on the Internet for
over a year, but ...
CS: I
think in progressive circles I was very well
known. But all of a sudden I was known all over
the world. My daughters were in Europe when my
mother had her stroke. My husband and I decided
not to tell the girls. We didn't want to ruin
their vacation, but they saw it on TV. So it
really just spread like wildfire. And not only did
it bring wanted attention, it brought unwanted
attention from the right-wing media. But that
didn't affect me, that didn't harm me at all.
I'd been doing this a long time. I'd been
on Wolf Blitzer, Chris Mathews, all those shows.
I'd done press conferences. It was just the
intensity that spiked up. But my message has
always remained the same. I didn't just fall off
some pumpkin truck on August 6 and start doing
this. The media couldn't believe someone like me
could be so articulate and intelligent and have my
own message. Number one, I'm a woman; number two,
I'm a grieving mother; so they had the urge to
marginalize me, to pretend like somebody's pulling
my strings. Our president's not even articulate
and intelligent. Someone must be pulling his
strings, so someone must be pulling Cindy
Sheehan's too. That offended me. Oh my gosh, you
think someone has to put words into my mouth! [She
laughs.] Do some research!
TD:
Did you feel they were presenting you
without some of your bluntness?
CS: God forbid anybody speak
bluntly or tell the truth. [Ketchup heiress]
Teresa Heinz Kerry, they marginalized her too
because she always spoke her mind.
TD: Would you like to speak
about your bluntness a little because words you
use like "war crimes" aren't ones Americans hear
often.
CS: All you have to
do is look at the Nuremberg Tribunal or the Geneva
Conventions. Clearly they've committed war crimes.
Clearly. It's black and white. It's not me coming
up with this abstract idea. It's like, well, did
you put a bullet in that person's head or didn't
you? "Yes I did." Well, that's a crime. It's not
shades of grey. They broke every treaty. They
broke our own constitution. They broke Nuremberg.
They broke the Geneva Conventions. Everything. And
if somebody doesn't say it, does it mean it didn't
happen? Somebody has to say it, and I'll say it.
I've called George Bush a terrorist. He says a
terrorist is somebody who kills innocent people.
That's his own definition. So, by George Bush's
own definition, he is a terrorist, because there
are almost 100,000 innocent Iraqis that have been
killed. And innocent Afghanis that have been
killed.
And I think a lot of the
mainstream opposition is glad I'm saying it,
because they don't have to say it. They're not
strong enough or brave enough or they think they
have something politically at stake. We've had
Congress members talk about impeachment and war
crimes. I've heard them. But they're the usual
suspects. They're marginalized too. They've always
been against the war, so we can't listen to them.
You know, I had always admired people like
the woman who started Mothers Against Drunk
Driving or John Walsh for starting the Adam Walsh
Foundation after his son was killed. I thought I
could never do anything like that to elevate my
suffering or my tragedy, and then, when it
happened to me, I found out I did have the
strength.
[It's about 5:30 when we pull
up at a Hyatt Hotel. Cindy, Dede and I proceed to
the deserted recesses of the hotel's restaurant
where Cindy has her first modest meal of the day.
The rest of the interview takes place between
spoonfuls of soup.]
TD:
I've read a lot of articles about you in which
your son Casey is identified as an altar boy or an
Eagle Scout, but would you be willing to tell me a
little more about him?
CS:
He was very calm. He never got mad. He
never got too wild. One way or the other, he
didn't waver much. I have another son and two
daughters. He was the oldest one and they just
idolized him. He never gave anybody trouble, but
he was a procrastinator, the kind of person who,
if he had a big project at school, would wait
until the day before to do it. But when he had a
job - he worked full time before he went into the
army and he was never late for work or missed a
day in two years. I think that's pretty amazing.
The reason we talk about him being an altar boy
was that church was his number one priority, even
when he was away from us in the army. He helped at
the chapel. He never missed Mass. He was an usher.
He was a Eucharistic minister. When he was at
home, he was heavily involved in my youth
ministry. For eight years I was a youth minister
at our parish and for three of those years in high
school he was in my youth group; then for three of
those years in college he helped me.
TD: Tell me about his
decision to join the army.
CS: A recruiter got hold of
him, probably at a vulnerable point in his life,
promised him a lot of things, and didn't fulfill
one of the promises. It was May of 2000. There was
no 9/11. George Bush hadn't even happened. When
George Bush became his commander-and-chief, my
son's doom was sealed. George Bush wanted to
invade Iraq before he was even elected president.
While he was still governor of Texas he was
talking about: "If I was commander-and-chief, this
is what I would do."
Back then, my son was
promised a $20,000 signing bonus. He only got
$4,000 of that when he finished his advanced
training. He was promised a laptop, so he could
take classes from wherever he was deployed in the
world. He never got that. They promised him he
could finish college because he only had one year
left when he went in the army. They would never
let him take a class. They promised him he could
be a chaplain's assistant, which was what he
really wanted to do; but, when he got to boot
camp, they said that was full and he could be a
Humvee mechanic or a cook. So he chose Humvee
mechanic. The most awful thing the recruiter
promised him was: even if there was a war, he
wouldn't see combat because he scored so high on
the ASVAB [Career Exploration] tests. He would
only be in war in a support role. He was in Iraq
for five days before he was killed in combat.
TD: Did you discuss Iraq
with him at all?
CS: Yes we
did. He didn't agree with it. Nobody in our family
agreed with it. He said, "I wish I didn't have to
go, Mom, but I have to. It's my duty and my
buddies are going." I believe we as Americans have
every right to, and should be willing to, defend
our country if we're in danger. But Iraq had
nothing to do with keeping America safe. So that's
why we disagreed with it. He reenlisted after the
invasion of Iraq, because he was told if he
didn't, he'd have to go to Iraq anyway - he'd be
stop-lossed - but if he did, he'd get to choose a
new MOS [military specialty] when he got home.
TD: Can you tell me
something about your own political background?
CS: I've always been a
pretty liberal democrat, but I don't think this
issue is partisan. I think it's life and death.
Nobody asked Casey what political party he
belonged to before they sent him to die in an
unjust and immoral war.
TD:
You met with Hillary Clinton yesterday, didn't
you? What do you think generally of the Democratic
... well, whatever it is?
CS:
They've been very weak. I think [John]
Kerry lost because he didn't come out strong
against the war. He came out to be even more of a
nightmare than George Bush. You know, we'll put
more troops in; I'll hunt down terrorists; I'll
kill them! That wasn't the right thing to say. The
right thing to say was: This war was wrong; George
Bush lied to us; people are dead because of it;
they shouldn't be dead; and if I'm elected, I'll
do everything to get our troops home as soon as
possible. Then, instead of seeing the failure
Kerry was with his middle-of-the-road,
wishy-washy, cowardly policies, the rest of the
Democrats have just kept saying the same things.
[Democratic National Committee chairman]
Howard Dean came out and said he hopes that the
president is successful in Iraq. What's that mean?
How can somebody be successful when we have no
goals or defined mission or objectives to achieve
there? They've been very cowardly and spineless.
What we did at Camp Casey was give them some
spine. The doors are open to them, Democrats and
Republicans alike. As [former Congressman and Win
Without War director] Tom Andrews said, if they
won't see the light, they'll feel the heat. And I
think they're feeling the heat.
I can see
it happening. I can see some Republicans like
Chuck Hagel and Walter Jones breaking ranks with
the party line. We met with a Republican yesterday
- I don't want to say his name because I don't
want to scare him off - but he seems to be
somebody we can work with. Of course, as it gets
closer to the congressional elections, we'll be
letting his constituents know that he can be
worked with.
TD: So you're
planning to go into the elections as a force?
CS: It's totally about the
war, about their position on the war. If people
care about that issue, then that's what they
should make it about too. We're starting a "Meet
with the Moms" campaign. We're going to target
every single congressman and senator to show their
constituents exactly where they stand on the war.
People in the state of New York, for instance,
should look at their senators and say, if you
don't come out for bringing our troops home as
soon as possible, we're not going to reelect you.
TD: Did Hillary give you any
satisfaction at all?
CS: Her
position is still to send in more troops and honor
the sacrifices of the fallen, which sounds like a
Bush position, but the dialogue was open.
TD: Don't you think it's
strange, these politicians like [Senator] Joe
Biden, for example, who talk about sending in more
troops, even though we all know there are no more
troops?
CS: Yes ... Where
you gettin' 'em? Where you gettin' 'em? It's
crazy. I mean we're going to send more troops in
there and leave our country even more vulnerable?
Leave us open for attack somewhere else, or to be
attacked by natural and man-made disasters again?
TD: You want the troops out
now. Bush isn't about to do that, but have you
thought about how you would proceed if you could?
CS: When we say now, we
don't mean that they can all come home tomorrow. I
hope everybody knows that. We have to start by
withdrawing our troops from the cities, bringing
them to the borders and getting them out. We have
to replace our military with something that looks
Arabic, something that looks Iraqi, to rebuild
their country. You know, they have the technology,
they have the skills, but they don't have any jobs
right now. How desperate for a job does one have
to be to stand in line to apply to the Iraqi
National Guard? I mean, they're killed just
standing in line! Give the Iraqis as much help and
support as they need to rebuild their country
which is in chaos. When our military presence
leaves, a lot of the violence and insurgency will
die. There will be some regional struggles with
the different communities in Iraq, but that's
happening right now. The British put together a
country that should never have been put together.
Maybe it should be split into three different
countries - who knows? But that's up to them, not
us.
TD: And what do you
actually expect? We have three-and-a-half more
years of this administration ...
CS: No we don't! [She
chuckles.] I think Katrina's going to be his
Monica. It's not a matter of "if" any more, it's a
matter of "when", because clearly ... clearly,
they're criminals. I mean, look at the people who
got the first no-bid contracts to clean up and
rebuild New Orleans. It's Haliburton again. It's
crazy. One negative effect of Camp Casey was it
took a lot of heat off [Bush advisor] Karl Rove
for his hand in the [Valerie] Plame case. But I
hear indictments are coming down soon. So that's
one way it's going to come about. George Bush is
getting ready to implode. I mean have you seen him
lately? He's a man who's out of control.
[Note: For those who would like to read
Cindy Sheehan in her own words, or more about her,
check out her archive at www.LewRockwell.com, or
go to the Truthout website, which has been
carrying her latest statements and has extensive
coverage on her, or visit Afterdowningstreet.com,
which offers thorough, up-to-date coverage of her
activities and much else.]
Tom
Engelhardt is editor of Tomdispatch and the
author of The End of Victory Culture.
(Copyright 2005 Tomdispatch. Used by
permission.)
All material on this
website is copyright and may not be republished in any form without written
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