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Pride, science, fear yield
WMD
Mahdi Obeidi, the
mastermind of Iraq's uranium-enrichment program at
the heart of its nuclear ambitions and author of
The Bomb in My Garden (see review),
discussed his book, nuclear proliferation, and
more with Asia Times Online's Gary LaMoshi.
Asia Times Online: You worked to
create a nuclear option for Saddam Hussein, even
though you say his regime terrorized you, your
family, and your country. How did you reconcile
your feelings of national pride and scientific
inquiry in the research with the horrors of that
regime and what it might do with nuclear weapons?
What did you think Saddam Hussein would do with
nuclear weapons?
Mahdi Obeidi: I
believe you have put your finger on a crucial
point to understand nuclear proliferation. The
pursuit of nuclear weapons may start with feelings
of national pride and scientific pursuit.
Scientists are then caught in an irreversible
process whereby they become recruited [due to]
their knowledge. They are placed in situations
over which they have little control. Tyranny can
put a man in an untenable position if he is to
protect himself or his family.
The three
factors of national pride, scientific pursuit, and
fear enabled Saddam to be on the verge of having a
bomb. Thank God, the world will never know what
Saddam might have done with one.
ATol:
You say that the real secrets of nuclear
proliferation - and thus the greatest dangers -
are buried in the minds of scientists in Iraq, the
former Soviet Union, and other nuclear states and
aspirants. But the struggles of your program, and
the convergence of ingenuity (you are obviously a
brilliant engineer, sir), overseas contacts and
outright criminality, plus Iraq's oil wealth and
benign neglect by the West, instrumental in your
success, underscore how difficult it is to make a
bomb. So it seems unlikely that a handful of
scientists could succeed with nothing more than
their knowledge, particularly with the toughened
global non-proliferation regime now in place. Why
do you think nuclear scientists' minds alone are
so dangerous?
Obeidi: The toughened
global non-proliferation regime now in place came
as a consequence of the Iraqi experience: how a
small, underdeveloped nation can make great
scientific strides in about three years to be on
the verge of making a bomb from scratch.
The lack of world awareness about
proliferation in the last century allowed many
countries to become nuclear, and some [others]
were well on their way. It is hoped that in this
century, eyes will be wide open to deter would-be
proliferators. The nuclear scientists' minds could
make the necessary start towards proliferation
when world situation allows.
ATol:
Your book doesn't mention any contacts with other
1980s nuclear aspirants such as Libya, North
Korea, and especially Pakistan. Did you ever speak
to the scientists in these countries or exchange
information with them? You also don't mention the
Soviet Union: was there ever any contact with its
scientists?
Obeidi: I didn't make
any contact with any of the scientists in the
countries you have mentioned.
ATol:
During the years after the Gulf War, under weapons
inspections and sanctions, did you believe it was
conceivable that Iraq could have continued
developing weapons of mass destruction? Why did
the world - the United States and Britain invaded,
but there was consensus among global intelligence
agencies that Iraq was still doing something under
the table - get it so wrong?
Obeidi: Iraq could not have
restarted his program during the nineties for the
following reasons:
UN inspection teams demolished the nuclear
infrastructure.
Iraq was benefiting from the food-for-oil
program.
The escape of Saddam's son-in-law, Hussein
Kamel, who was instrumental in the program.
How could the world have made a mistaken
assessment of the Iraqi nuclear program before the
invasion? There was Saddam Hussein's history. He
had demonstrated his desire for nuclear weapons
since the late '70s, beginning with the reactor
program and ending with the enrichment programs up
to 1991, which led to an accelerated bomb program.
After 1991, Saddam tried to hide the program from
UN inspection teams until the escape of Hussein
Kamel. It would have been hard not to suspect
Saddam of trying to develop weapons again.
ATol: Tell me your thoughts about
what's happening in Iraq today. Do you think that
the price paid, by foreigners and Iraqis, is worth
the results to date, specifically the end of
Saddam Hussein's regime and the beginnings of a
more legitimate government? To put it in more
personal terms, you have a teenage son: how would
you feel if he wanted to volunteer to fight in
Iraq, for the US forces, the Iraq National Guard,
or the insurgency?
Obeidi: Tyranny
is man's greatest enemy. It deprives him of his
self-worth, and drains his mental and material
resources. Any blood spilled to rid a nation of
tyranny is worth every drop.
ATol:
We all talk about being "chained to our desks"
sometimes, but you actually were. You were
confined to a plant producing black carbon for
tire production in 1994 when the project failed to
finish on schedule. Tell me more about that
experience. How many of you were confined? What
were the conditions like? Could you contact your
families? How did you, to quote from your account
in the book, try to "lighten spirits"?
Obeidi: For Iraq, the '90s was a
period of retreat. The survival game was
prevalent. Threats became more explicit and less
veiled. I was confined for six months in the
black-carbon factory along with 20 of my
employees. I could only talk with my family on the
phone. I feared that the morale of my employees
would break, and I cultivated my mutual respect
and love for them to spirit them through those
trying days.
ATol: You've been
educated at institutions in the Arab world, the US
and the UK. Tell me about the differences between
those educational systems. What can each system
learn from the others? How do differences in those
education systems impact graduates and those
societies at large?
Obeidi: Iraq
has a solid education base. I utilized my basic
education with the American education system,
which is known for its diversity and theoretical
base. This was further improved by the British
system, which is noted for its fine research base.
Gary LaMoshi has worked as a
broadcast producer and print writer and editor in
the US and Asia. Longtime editor of investor
rights advocate eRaider.com, he is also a
contributor to Slate and Salon.com.
(Copyright 2005 Asia Times Online Ltd.
All rights reserved. Please contact us for
information on sales, syndication and republishing.)
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