INTERVIEW Withdrawal
the solution to the
mess Tariq Ali,
historian and filmmaker
LAHORE,
Pakistan - Eminent writer, historian and filmmaker
Tariq Ali was born in Lahore in 1943. While a
student at Oxford University, he became involved
in the movement against the war in Vietnam. That
was the beginning of a long career in the literary
arts and in peace activism that has earned him
iconic status.
Ali's book The Leopard
and the Fox, released this year, was
originally written as the script for a television drama
commissioned in 1985 by the
British Broadcasting Corp that depicted the
circumstances that led to the hanging of
Pakistan's first elected prime minister, Zulfiqar
Ali Bhutto. The book explains how the BBC was
compelled to withdraw the three-part series
because Pakistan's then military dictator, General
Zia ul-Haq, was a key ally of the West in the war
to expel the Soviets from Afghanistan.
When Inter Press Service correspondent
Aoun Abbas Sahi interviewed Ali, who was in
Pakistan recently, the writer, known for his
incisive political commentaries, explained why he
believed US policy in Iraq and Afghanistan was
doomed to fail from the start - because of the
Iran factor.
Inter Press
Service: Who, according to you, is the
main beneficiary of the US-led "war on terror"?
Tariq Ali: Undoubtedly Iran.
But then the Americans could not have occupied
Afghanistan and Iraq and without Iran's support.
This is what no one likes talking about. Had the
Iranians said, if you take Iraq we will fight you,
the occupation probably would not have taken
place. But the Iranians, who regarded the Taliban
and Saddam Hussein as enemies, kept silent.
The Americans thought, because the
Iranians supported them before they went in,
things would be fine. But the Iranians were
opportunists. They had their own agenda and
defended their own state interests - just as the
US defends its interests. These interests are now
clashing, and so the US is threatening Iran.
IPS: Do you think that the
US will now launch a war against Iran?
TA: I do not believe that
the US can launch a new war on Iran because they
haven't the troops. Second, if they do that they
will be fighting the Iranians on three fronts -
Iraq, Afghanistan and in Iran itself. So I think
it is very unlikely that a war against Iran will
happen.
IPS: In Afghanistan,
US-led NATO [North Atlantic Treaty Organization]
forces are blaming the Taliban for an increase in
violence.
TA: I do not
believe that big powers occupying small countries
can solve any problem, even with good intentions.
The Soviet intervention in Afghanistan created a
mess which the Americans fully exploited. That is
why the American intervention - cooperation
freedom, as they call it - always makes me laugh.
It has been a disaster.
They have set up a
puppet regime. They have poured in money to
sustain this puppet regime. You have large-scale
corruption in the country. Recent figures given by
the United Nations say that the drug trade is the
worst it has ever been in the south of the
country, especially in Helmand, a province
controlled by British troops. So what changed in
Afghanistan?
You have a thin layer of
politicians implanted there by the West with no
real base in the country. And then you have the
old American habit of shooting from the hip,
dropping bombs from the air, indiscriminately
killing people right, left and the center. The
result is increased resistance. I don't like the
Taliban, but if people in Afghanistan see the
Taliban fighting the guys who are bombing and
killing, they get attracted. It's very simple.
IPS: You think the
resistance against US forces in Afghanistan and
the Pakistan Army in the adjacent tribal areas is
justified?
TA: People in
Pakistan who support the occupation of Afghanistan
should ask themselves whether they favor Pakistan
being occupied just because many people in the
West regard Pakistan as a failed state. I think
one has to look at alternatives other than Western
occupation. In my opinion, and I will argue this
in public, the only way out of this mess is to
first get all Western troops to withdraw.
A regional summit including Pakistan,
India, Russia and Iran could then be organized to
discuss a joint deal to stabilize Afghanistan as a
federation. That is the way to proceed - take
regional initiatives and deny the US any excuse to
interfere. Otherwise this mess will carry on.
IPS: The situation in Iraq
is getting worse with every passing day.
TA: That is now accepted by
every serious politician in America. It's a total
and complete disaster. Before they went into Iraq,
some of us tried to warn them that there would be
a big resistance. For the first few years the
resistance was essentially fought by former units
of the Iraqi Army which dispersed and went into
the countryside. They had set up military dumps
because they knew what was going to happen.
Second, you have new groups, many of them
from the Sunni areas, fighting the American army.
And then you have a situation where the Shi'ite
resistance led by Muqtada al-Sadr controls large
parts of southern Iraq.
IPS:
How important is the role of the al-Qaeda in this
scenario of strong resistance against Western
forces, both in Afghanistan and Iraq?
TA: Al-Qaeda utilizes
American mistakes and disasters. It grows as a
result of these mistakes because the only solution
is political, not military. Al-Qaeda, instead of
being reduced in size, has grown because of
American military adventures abroad. You cannot
defeat people just by killing. It's not the case
that all the groups in Afghanistan fighting under
the Taliban umbrella are supporters of al-Qaeda.
The Taliban [themselves are] divided and split on
this question.
IPS: Are you
in favor of a world without nuclear weapons?
TA: I have always been
against the nuclear weapons. I have to be blunt,
but I do not believe that the US should determine
who has and who does not have nuclear weapons. If
France and Britain, tiny countries, can have
nuclear weapons, why not India, Pakistan or Iran?
Israel is permitted nuclear weapons but not Iran.
Ideally, no one should have nuclear weapons. But
many people actually believe the only way they can
defend themselves and prevent wars is to have
them. Many countries also think that acquiring
nuclear weapons is the only way to stop the US
attacking them.
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