Page 1 of
2 INTERVIEW When good intentions
get messy Mahmud Ali
Durrani, Pakistan's US
ambassador
Pakistan's ambassador to
Washington, retired major general Mahmud Ali
Durrani, was born in 1941 in the North-West
Frontier Province. Durrani, an ethnic Pathan from
the Durrani tribe, graduated from Pakistan
Military Academy in 1961 and completed airborne
training at Fort Benning, Georgia, in 1982. He
once commanded an elite Pakistani strike force
aimed at India, but spent the last decade lobbying
for peace between New Delhi and Islamabad. He was
involved with United Nations' peace efforts during
the Afghan crisis, and in 2004 authored
Pakistan's Strategic Thinking and the Role of
Nuclear Weapons. The National Interest's
executive editor Justine A Rosenthal
interviewed Durrani on January
24, 2008.
The National
Interest: Hoping you can tell us about how
you see the situation in Pakistan after the
Benazir Bhutto assassination in December. Do you
think things are more politically fragile? Can you
give us a look at the landscape from your
perspective?
Mahmud Ali
Durrani: There has been a level of
political instability since about March with the
removal of the chief justice [Iftikhar Mohammad
Chaudhry], culminating in the assassination of
Benazir Bhutto. There were two major arrows
piercing the heart of Pakistan, which were causing
the instability. One was the political development
where the opposition party saw an opening, and
they wanted to take advantage. The other was the
insurgency and the increase in the militancy.
It's a matter of how much instability
remains. I think since Benazir's death, a level of
stability is emerging. It's not all there, but
things have improved, I would say - marginally.
Particularly now that the elections have been
announced and almost everybody who's anybody is
participating in the elections. That is on track.
The other is the war on terror, which is
also moving in the right direction. I think if I
were to compare December to now, things have
improved. How? For example Swat in the North-West
Frontier Province, which was essentially under the
control of militants for a couple of weeks, is now
back in the government's control.
TNI: And what of the
stability of the tribal areas?
MAD: The tribal areas are a
restive area. It's nothing new, it's been like
this for decades, even centuries. So there are
problems. Initially the problems were in North
Waziristan. But the military took very strong
action there. It stabilized North Waziristan.
Things are much better.
And the situation
in South Waziristan is improving. As we talk there
are operations going on, and the Masood area,
which is surrounded by the Waziri area, is being
squeezed from three different directions. From
what I hear from the region today, they are asking
for peace, a ceasefire. I think the government is
not in the mood for that because this is the first
time the extremists have come under serious
pressure. Their supplies are limited, and they are
being encircled. The government has a window of
opportunity.
TNI: Now why do
you think the government was able to counter the
extremists this time as opposed to all the other
times?
MAD: Well, all the
other times we had developed different strategies.
The kind of reaction that we were getting was
mixed from the tribal regions. We didn't want to
have major casualties for the tribal regions. We
didn't want to cause collateral damage, we wanted
to use the stick very sparingly. There came a
point where we thought if we didn't use the stick
strongly enough, it was going to cost us too much.
TNI: What do you think was
the breaking point? Was it the assassination, was
it the growing instability?
MAD: Growing instability and
the assassination. They were the same thing. The
instability was expanding - and it was expanding
out of the tribal area and I think then the
government decided that you know, now we have to
use force, and maybe we will not be as cautious
about the collateral damage. We still want to use
a multi-pronged strategy. That is, military force,
development and empowerment of the people. We
still believe that that will be the ultimate
answer. Using force alone is not the answer.
TNI: How much do you think
Pakistan's alliance with the United States has
exacerbated these problems? How do you balance the
costs and benefits of the relationship?
MAD: It's very difficult.
Take, for example, what the US has done for us and
what they have given us in terms of support, in
terms of money, and so on. We are grateful for
that. That has helped us. But on the other side,
the popularity of the US is very low, and the
caveats that Congress puts on the money creates
problems. It's like giving somebody an ice cream
cone and sprinkling a bit of red pepper on it.
With so many caveats, good intentions get messy.
TNI: Why do you think then
that the Americans weren't able to capitalize more
on the aid they gave after the earthquake [in the
Kashmir region in 2005]?
MAD: Some people called the
United States "agents of mercy". But after a time
that went away. When things started going wrong in
Afghanistan, then the blame game started: Pakistan
is not doing enough, all the trouble is coming
from the tribal areas. We think this is unfair. I
think we get a lot of blowback from Afghanistan.
We have footed much more in terms of effort,
money, soldiers, fighting than anybody else has.
And then we are criticized for somebody else's
failings. People see this. People in Pakistan see
what the government is doing, what the military is
doing in terms of fighting extremism, and yet we
have writers from the United States saying "you're
not doing enough" and "the money is being wasted".
TNI: There has been
criticism that a lot of people who are within the
Pakistani military are born in some of the areas
where they now have to go and fight, and that
makes it almost impossible, potentially, for them
to choose sides. Are these exaggerated?
MAD: This is a figment of
the United States' imagination. They are fighting,
they are giving up their lives, they are dying
every day. They have to choose sides. This is
difficult, but they are loyal to the military.
TNI: And what do you think
are the potentials for the [parliamentary]
election [scheduled for February 18]? Do you think
there will be more stability or will it be
destabilizing? What do you think of the foreign
presences that are going to be there for the
election?
MAD: As far as the
election preparations are concerned, I think this
is going to be the best election in Pakistan as
far as fairness is concerned. That has not been a
strong point in the past. We all know that. In
fairness this is probably going to be one of the
best elections. Better than anything before, but
not perfect. There are people who are going to
lose, and habitually the loser is going to
protest. So that could cause instability. Now that
will depend on the people of Pakistan: how they
take it, how they assess it, a lot will depend on
the sentiment of the people. So I am not sure. I
am only hoping that it will bring greater
stability.
TNI: Do you think
there are growing tensions between Pakistan and
the United States?
MAD: Not
between the administrations. Overall, as far as
the administration is concerned, I think we have a
good understanding between the government of
Pakistan and the government of the United States.
So I don't see major tensions there. I have been
to Congress. Yesterday I was there. Almost
everybody says we have to support Pakistan. Almost
everybody. They are an important ally. They are
vital for our fight against terrorism. Everyone
says that. But then there are about half a dozen
ifs and buts: Hold a fair and free election, do
more for the war on terror ...
TNI: Now, when they talk
about US troops going into the tribal areas ...
MAD: First, we don't think
that would be useful. It would be totally
counterproductive. The popularity of the United
States would plummet further. It will destabilize
Pakistan's government because people will get
after them for letting the Americans come in. So I
think it will totally ruin the whole thing.
TNI: There have been
arguments that the only thing that will
destabilize Pakistan is a US troop presence. Do
you think that's true?
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