Page 2 of
2 INTERVIEW When good intentions get
messy Mahmud Ali
Durrani,
Pakistan's US
ambassador
MAD:
I would not say that Pakistan will remain stable
in any condition. A lot will depend on how we
manage our country. I will not make any
assumptions that we will forever remain stable and
that everything is fine. We have problems. We have
to correct all the faults, we have to bring
internal stability in Pakistan. And we can't blame
the United States or any other country for that.
That is our own problem. We have to resolve it. We
have stability issues we have to resolve. But if
you put in American troops, this will further
destabilize the country.
TNI: How much of a problem
would the tribal areas be for the
Pakistani government were
there not a US-led war on terror?
MAD: I think with hindsight,
we are always paying for the fallout from
Afghanistan. I think if there was no war on terror
and if what had happened in Afghanistan had not
happened, tribal areas would have continued as
they continued in the past, and I don't think we
would have had many problems.
TNI: Do you expect that the
United States is going to sit in judgment of this
election? What happens if it is not considered
"fair"?
MAD: No, the common
man in the United States I don't think is bothered
one way or the other. But there isn't a single
voice in the United States. The biggest voice is
the [George W Bush] administration. Then there is
the Congress, the media, and to a smaller level
the academic community/think tanks. So everybody
is going to stand in judgment because everybody
here in the United States has got involved with
the politics of Pakistan. I wish they would let
the people of Pakistan decide things for
themselves. There are a 160 million Pakistanis.
And I don't think they're stupid. Let the people
of the country which is affected decide. Why
should anybody interject? I don't see it.
TNI: And how do Pakistanis
see the US presidential election? Is there a sense
of concern, hope? Do they want the policies to
change? Are you worried about an inconsistency if
we have a change in party?
MAD: Generally, they feel
that the United States is an unreliable ally. This
is a very common perception. Rightly or wrongly.
So they would like anybody who comes in to be
reliable, to be a friend of Pakistan for the long
term, and that it's not a matter of using Pakistan
and then throwing it away. That's the perception
there. So we hope whichever government comes in -
I'm sure they're aware of this - will rectify
this.
TNI: General Ashfaq
Kiani has just been appointed chief of the army in
Pakistan. Can you talk about this appointment, the
changes that he seems to be trying to make and the
timing of the changes?
MAD:
I will request that the people of the United
States, the policy makers don't focus on these
individuals. Focus on a nation, focus on the
country. Don't focus on this man or that man.
Because you should have relations with
governments, not with individuals. Because when
you link your destiny or your agenda with a
person, particularly when the popularity of the
United States is so low in Pakistan, you're likely
to ruin that person's credibility.
TNI: So anyone who has the
hand of the United States hovering near them
becomes potentially discredited?
MAD: It's not just a man of
the United States. If a person is seen as being
highly affected by any country's foreign policies,
it will be unpopular in Pakistan. Our army chief
should be seen as a Pakistani, for the Pakistanis.
Not a lackey of another country.
TNI: What do you think of
the policies Kiani seems to be instituting?
MAD: The policies he seems
to be instituting are that of a professional
soldier, and he's doing the right thing, as would
anybody in his position. Normally people who come
up to that level are competent professionals. So
he's a good man, he's a professional, and he's
doing what a professional soldier should be doing.
He's asking the army not to get involved in
politics, he's asking the army to focus on
military training, that is what his job is. That
is what he should be doing. But people are saying
he's the United States' man, and that's the worst
thing the US can do. Don't focus on individuals,
focus on countries.
TNI:
Putting the focus back on governments, what about
the United States' apparently renewed friendship
with India? Does this concern Pakistan?
MAD: No. To thinking
Pakistanis, to logical Pakistanis, this is a good
thing. I don't think the relationship with
Pakistan is influenced by US relations with India.
It doesn't bother us. Better relations with India
may be, in the long term, better for Pakistan. And
in some ways we think maybe the United States can
influence India. So this relationship may have
benefits. I think that is narrow-minded that the
enemy of my enemy is my friend, and vice versa.
Because we are becoming friends with India, too.
TNI: Do you see Pakistan
becoming closer to China and Russia over the next
decade, rather than the United States?
MAD: That is a very
difficult question. I really don't know. And let
me tell you one thing: The people of Pakistan like
the United States. They like your values. They
like your land of opportunity. Today if there is a
big rally in Pakistan and everybody is chanting
"down with America" and there's somebody who comes
and says "how many want a US visa?", 90% of the
people would say "Yes, I would." Because they like
your system. They like your people. They like your
freedom. Even if they don't like your policies.
There is a difference between US policy and
people.
TNI: Any concluding
remarks?
MAD: Yes, three
things. First, the government is determined to
have a fair and free election. In the presence of
representatives of the various parties in the
polling stations that announce the results right
on the spot, rather than send it to the federal
government to announce. And there's a number of
measures they have undertaken so that the
elections are fair and free because it is in the
interest of the government and of Musharraf also
to make sure that these are fair and free. The
whole world's focus is on Pakistan. On fair and
free elections.
Second, I want to
re-emphasize our commitment to the war on terror.
To be out fighting to support the international
community, as well as for our own future. More so
for our own future. We want a liberal democratic
Pakistan with a moderate Islamic underpinning.
This is the kind of vision that our founding
father had. We don't like the vision of the
narrow-minded extremists. You may disagree
sometimes with our tactics and our strategy. We
will differ with you at times on how to get rid of
extremism. But don't doubt our commitment. That is
firm and absolute.
Third, don't try to
micromanage Pakistan. If you micromanage Pakistan,
you will only create a mess. Trust 160 or 165
million Pakistanis to do the right thing. Let them
choose their destiny. Don't force feed them.
Justine A Rosenthal is the
executive editor of The National Interest.
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