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ASIA HAND The Thai military's
democratic nightmare By Shawn W Crispin
would be up to the task as prime minister to help manage national affairs
during the royal succession? What is the risk that the military stages another
coup when that day comes?
Samak: In Thai we don't talk about such things. It will happen;
what will be will be. But when the time comes, the Thais will know how to
manage. But now when the military powers use the monarch to run a smear
campaign against [Thaksin], this is bad
enough. But I hope another coup group like the current one will not exist, but
only those who take good care of the country's future with a helping hand.
ATol: If you become prime minister, what would you change first?
Samak: The first thing would be to bring the 111 [banned Thai Rak
Thai party members] back through an amnesty ... [The coup makers] dissolved the
tribunal court, so they set up a tribunal committee, which is not a court. So
this was not a court judgment, but a decision about who committed something
right or wrong about the constitution.
When they did such a thing, I felt it was biased. So when I made the
announcement about bringing back TRT members through an amnesty, those that had
scattered around [to other political parties] just came back. They still
supported Thaksin.
Then I'd change the constitution. The former [1997] one was good. We will
upgrade the present one by keeping the first chapter about the monarch and then
for the other articles we will bring back the old constitution and then
slightly amend what was wrong with it.
ATol: Some of your party members feel that Privy Council
president Prem had both before and after the coup overstepped his bounds as a
royal advisor and was getting involved with political affairs. Do you foresee
the need to reform the powers or role of the privy council?
Samak: Actually it's good already because [constitutional]
articles 14 and 15 mention that [the Privy Council] is not the monarch and that
they just act as consultants to the monarch. And that they can not get involved
in politics. It is written in the charter. That is good enough.
Prem is good advisor, but he always does something that leads to politics. When
he gives talks to cadets - military cadets, air force cadets, navy cadets - it
comes out on the news and he says things about the government, this and that,
this and that. So I just make a warning that by law you can’t do this. You are
very close to the monarch and when you do this people might think it’s the
intention of the monarch.
ATol: Is it your belief that Prem orchestrated the coup?
Samak: I cannot mention, but that is the understanding of the
people of this country. I can say that. Let's put it this way: if you read the
history books, he ended his military service 27 years ago. But he still thinks
and acts like he's in the service. Twenty seven years after he gave up his
position, when he was 60 years old, why does he still interfere in politics?
Everybody says he's a statesman, that's OK. But when you are very close to the
monarch, you can't do such a thing.
ATol: Historically you've had strong ties with factions inside
the military. Are you on good terms with the group of soldiers [Pre-Cadet Class
10] that supported Thaksin and since the coup have been sidelined? Would you as
prime minister move to restore them to positions of authority to diminish the
coup makers power inside the armed forces?
Samak: I just know they are the class of Thaksin. And that's all.
I don't know them personally. (laughs)
ATol: But historically you have had close ties inside the
military, no?
Samak: Actually we can not call them ties - we can say that we
think the same way. Such as when we faced a communist movement 30 years ago,
which wanted to overthrow Buddhism and overthrow the monarchy. If you remember
they overthrew the monarchy in Laos and they tried to do it in this country.
So I was the one who just came to fight and the military also protected the
throne. We fought for our life to save the monarch. I didn't know anyone
[inside the military] personally, but I knew who they were and they knew who I
was.
ATol: Your role in the violent suppression of the 1976 student
uprising is documented in certain Thai history books. How have you reconciled
with the former student leaders who Thaksin brought into TRT that are now
attached to the PPP?
Samak: I don't know them at all personally. We don't know each
other and actually I didn't do anything wrong with those people. Only those who
write history books think so.
ATol: So in essence the history books have misrepresented your
role in the suppression of the October 6, 1976 student uprising?
Samak: Yes, because on October 22 I was just invited to be the
minister of the interior, so I had no authority to order anything before that.
But they say I ordered to kill students, to do this, to do that.
ATol: It's not true?
Samak: No, no, no, no - not at all. And anyone who has
accused me of that I've taken the case to court.
ATol: Let me take a step back. In 1976 you were instrumental in
bringing [former military dictator] Thanom [Kittikachorn] back from exile and
that was pivotal in instigating the student uprising and the political violence
that followed. Do you think there could be a parallel with your plans to bring
Thaksin back from exile?
Samak: No that was something different. Thanom was hated, Thaksin
is loved. But you see it was completely different. Then it was the hatred of a
dictator, and we can say that they were real dictators.
ATol: So what do you think the political upshot would be of
Thaksin's returning to Thailand ?
Samak: Even if I'm not the prime minister, Thaksin can come back
after the election. Even if [the PPP] is not in government, he must come back
and surrender himself to the court. But if we announce an amnesty, he will
automatically be free to make political movements. But he can come back even if
there is no amnesty law, he can come back ... He will not die because of this
thing. It's finished already, everyone understands now.
ATol: Could his sudden return give motivation for another
military coup of the PPP-led government you hope to form?
Samak: If they do it again, it will be a shame in the eyes of the
whole world. The new army commander-in chief [General Anupong Paochinda] says
that politics must be solved through politics, not by coup d'etats. He is a
good guy.
ATol: What are your feelings about how the US has accommodated
the coup-makers? Did you feel that Washington was too quick to support their
coup?
Samak: The past year of US support for [ Thailand's military
junta] was on the condition that they could only stay in power for only one
year, on the promise that democracy will be restored. So that's why the US has
had patience and that's why the elections are being held on time.
It's OK, they didn't sell them weapons at this time. But the US is still a
guarantor of this kind of military movement across the world. They make strong
statements when the world is looking, like with General Musharraf in Pakistan
now, they tell him you must stop with emergency rule. But the US doesn't say
much when the world's not watching.
ATol: So would a PPP-led government approach US relations in a
different manner because Washington apparently tacitly supported the coup?
Particularly considering the regional competition now underway between the US
and China for regional influence and Beijing's overt support for Thaksin while
in exile?
Samak: Let me put it this way, what would Thaksin have done? It's
a dynamic. If he disagreed with the US , he would go to China , he would go to
Russia . If he had a conflict over buying F-16 fighters, he would join with
China, join with India. So when you do things like this, it makes things more
balanced. And the United States can't say anything. I think it is good.
When you compare it to [former Thai prime minister] Chuan he just followed the
way of what the bureaucracy said. He wasn't dynamic enough to do anything else.
But Thaksin was willing to take risks. Under Thaksin we were on the front line
of the [Association of Southeast Asian Nations], both in politics and
economics. But now just one year after the coup, we have moved down to the
level of [ Myanmar ] and Cambodia . Why? Because everyone else is running and
we are standing still.
ATol: So a PPP-led government wouldn't necessarily be more
pro-China at the US's expense because of their engagement with the coup-makers?
Samak: No, no, no. We can balance no problem. They are both
colleagues. The US is a little bit far away, but a good old friend. But China
is more than a good old friend, we are not far away from each other, we are in
the same zone.
Shawn W Crispin is Asia Times Online's Southeast Asia Editor. He may be
reached at swcrispin@atimes.com
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